This American is waiting...

[McDozer]

Hi Hunble...

Must be kinda tough 4 U gettin' around on this site... so it was for me at first... sooner or later you'll come to the conclusion that most of 'em R just a bunch of harmless kooks. As fas as the anti-American feelings, especially anti military: no wonder. Even Americans are starting to get hyped up about your president, if you cruise around in the net a bit, searching for "Conspiracy" sites. There are more Americans than Germans who are comparing him to Hitler, accusing him of Satanism & mind control, so, this is not a Nationality thing, it's an issue between sleepers & wakers... what R U?

 

[Hunble]

Reply to Trasher

I think a big problem of the US-government is their obvious double moral.
-Nobody is allowed to produce or own mass-destruction-weapons but the US.
-Sovereign countries have to open their doors for weapon-inspectors but the US.
-Bush thinks, war could stabilize a region but the opposite is happening.
-Bush thinks, war could stop terrorism - oh my god, how naively!

After the war in Iraq the world will not live in peace but several oil-companies will earn a lot of money...

................................

Trasher, you mentioned some rather interesting point and I apologize for taking so long in replying.

1) Can you explain to us, for what what peaceful purpose will Iraq use these biological, chemical and nuclear weapons for?

2) Can you explain to us why diseases such as Anthrax and Smallpox is a good idea to release upon the world population? After 1972, nobody in the world has been immunized for Smallpox, and if this is released, there is a very serious risk that 1/3 of the population of the world will die.

3) Mustard gas makes your skin break out in horrible blisters. These blisters seep a yellow colored slime that resembles the mustard you use for cooking. Can you explain to us why Iraq needs this? Can you explain why YOU would want to receive this?

4) When Russia and the United States agreed to reduce the number of nuclear weapons each side has, Weapons Inspectors from each country are currently verifying the destruction of these weapons. When a nuclear weapon is destroyed in America, a Russian is there to witness it's destruction. When a Russian nuclear weapon is destroyed, an American will be there to witness the destruction.

5) America has not dropped a single bomb upon Baghdad during this current crisis, and hopefully it will never be needed. However, in 1998, many bombs were dropped upon Baghdad, and the German people supported that action.

6) A treaty between nations is a binding law. Any violation of that treaty, may invoke war.

7) The threat of war is a very important aspect of any diplomacy. To accuse the United States of abandoning diplomacy, is simply not being honest. If anything, the U.S. is doing everything possible to allow Iraq to honor the peace treaty that is has signed.

8) Iraq signed a peace treaty with the United States and they are currently in violation of that treaty.

9) Terrorism has been a sad aspect of our mutual history, and unfortunately, Germany has often been the target of Islamic attacks. Historically, Germans have always been more at risk from terrorist attack than Americans.

10) During the 1980s, Germany was often attacked by the Islamic nations, with horrible deaths of many German citizens.

11) When a Disco was bombed in Berlin, President Regan had enough and attacked the country responsible. After that bombing, Germany was able to live in peace once again.

12) History teaches us many things. One of which is very important to both Americans and Germans today. If you do not fight back when someone is trying to kill you, then you are considered weak and the attacks will continue.

13) The moment America was attacked on 9/11/01, Germany declared war also, in compliance with the NATO treaty. Any attack upon a NATO country, is an attack upon all of them.

14) The failure of Germany to honor the NATO treaty between Germany and the United States, has placed Germany in danger of being expelled from NATO. Germany has totally failed to uphold their side of the treaty.

 

[Ehemaliger_User]

Think objectively: Actually, why is the US allowed to own NBC-Weapons and Iraq or North Korea aren't? Because they are "aggressive"? If you think of the wars of the past 10 or 20 years - how many of them wouldn't have taken place without the USA?

The inspectors in Iraq were supposed to look for NBC-Weapons. If they found some, the USA would start the war. Now, they weren't able to find any but the USA is going to attack anyway?! Well, who is aggressive now? Iraq wants to answer the questions of the UN and of America, to prevent the war. But what did Bush say a few days ago: "We are trying to find a peaceful way but Saddam doesn't understand this." Honestly, who is more dangerous?

 

[Hunble]

The inspectors in Iraq were supposed to look for NBC-Weapons. If they found some, the USA would start the war.

Absolutly FALSE!

In compliance with the United Nations peace treaty of 1991, Iraq must declare and eliminate all chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, so that they may be destroyed.

The United Nations Inspection Team is NOT currently in Iraq to locate these illegal weapons. Their only mission is to allow Iraq to show them the location of these weapons and document thier destruction.

Iraq was given the chance to allow the United Nations Inspection Team to verify and document the destruction of these weapons. Iraq has chosen a very stupid path.

The American military knows exactly where those illegal weapons are located. If Iraq decides that war is their best option, then America will do what is required. And I assure you, the American military will show the world in every newspaper and television show, those illegal weapons once we have occupied Iraq.

If I was German, I would be hiding in my face in shame today.

 

[Hunble]

Re: Hi Hunble...

... sooner or later you'll come to the conclusion that most of 'em R just a bunch of harmless kooks.

No, I do not consider them harmless. When they support the murder of civilians, support weapons designed to kill millions of people, when they support terrorism directed towards the Western Civilizations such as Germany and America.

I was invited to join this website, and even with my language ignorance, I will stand up for what is right.

No, I do not consider these people harmless.

My question is even more basic. No matter who I talk with around the World, people say the exact same things! It is like they are reading a script written for them, and like robots, they repeat the words they are programmed to say.

My quest is to learn who is writing this information. Who is controlling these robots?

 

[Trasher]

Re: Reply to Trasher

Trasher, you mentioned some rather interesting point and I apologize for taking so long in replying.

1) Can you explain to us, for what what peaceful purpose will Iraq use these biological, chemical and nuclear weapons for?

Please let your president answer the same question first. Always remember to look what YOU are doing at first.

2) Can you explain to us why diseases such as Anthrax and Smallpox is a good idea to release upon the world population? After 1972, nobody in the world has been immunized for Smallpox, and if this is released, there is a very serious risk that 1/3 of the population of the world will die.

Please explain us why US-scientists are searching for new biological weapons like Anthrax. Remember that some of the Anthrax of those socalled Anthrax-letters came from us-laboratories.

3) Mustard gas makes your skin break out in horrible blisters. These blisters seep a yellow colored slime that resembles the mustard you use for cooking. Can you explain to us why Iraq needs this? Can you explain why YOU would want to receive this?

What makes you think that I want to make this experience? And which source tells you that Iraq has Mustard gas?

4) When Russia and the United States agreed to reduce the number of nuclear weapons each side has, Weapons Inspectors from each country are currently verifying the destruction of these weapons. When a nuclear weapon is destroyed in America, a Russian is there to witness it's destruction. When a Russian nuclear weapon is destroyed, an American will be there to witness the destruction.

But do you really think that Mr. Hussein or any other human being from a country of the "axis of evil" would be allowed to visit Mr. Bushs headquarter?

5) America has not dropped a single bomb upon Baghdad during this current crisis, and hopefully it will never be needed. However, in 1998, many bombs were dropped upon Baghdad, and the German people supported that action.

As a NATO member we just have no chance to totally reject our support for your president's actions.
Btw, always remember who dropped the first nuclear bomb upon a country which had already surrendered.

6) A treaty between nations is a binding law. Any violation of that treaty, may invoke war.

Always remember that those treaties are made by the us government to hold that country down.
If you are threating me with a gun and tell me that I'm not allowed to eat and to drink for two years then I'm forced to accept it. After one week I will have to drink some water to prevent me from dying.
As a result you have the right to kill me?
If this is your way to live with the rest of the world in "peace" then I can understand why people call Bush the most cruel terrorist!

7) The threat of war is a very important aspect of any diplomacy. To accuse the United States of abandoning diplomacy, is simply not being honest. If anything, the U.S. is doing everything possible to allow Iraq to honor the peace treaty that is has signed.

Do you call one-sided pressure diplomacy? Do you think you are the good and those who don't stand at your side are the evil?
Peace is always made by two parties. You are trying to enforce peace by military pressure. This is really stupid!

8) Iraq signed a peace treaty with the United States and they are currently in violation of that treaty.

As I said, every weak country is mostly forced to sign treaties with your country with a gun on its chest.

9) Terrorism has been a sad aspect of our mutual history, and unfortunately, Germany has often been the target of Islamic attacks. Historically, Germans have always been more at risk from terrorist attack than Americans.

What do you want to say?

10) During the 1980s, Germany was often attacked by the Islamic nations, with horrible deaths of many German citizens.

This is history, I suppose.

11) When a Disco was bombed in Berlin, President Regan had enough and attacked the country responsible. After that bombing, Germany was able to live in peace once again.

Why do you call a whole country responsible for the action of a handful people?

12) History teaches us many things. One of which is very important to both Americans and Germans today. If you do not fight back when someone is trying to kill you, then you are considered weak and the attacks will continue.

I don't think that with Bush's strategy terrorism will end. It will get harder and harder for you, believe me.

13) The moment America was attacked on 9/11/01, Germany declared war also, in compliance with the NATO treaty. Any attack upon a NATO country, is an attack upon all of them.

Our government just accepted the case of alliance but we did not declare war to anybody! Until now nobody really proofed that the attack came from afghanistan!

14) The failure of Germany to honor the NATO treaty between Germany and the United States, has placed Germany in danger of being expelled from NATO. Germany has totally failed to uphold their side of the treaty.

You really made me laugh at this point of your story!
In my opinion, resistance will grow and at last George and Tony will be the only one members in the NATO treaty...

 

[Hunble]

Re: Reply to Trasher

Trasher, I want to thank you for your replies.

I deal with facts and you asked why I thought Iraq had Mustard Gas.

Hopefully, your views are a tiny minority of the German public.

................

December 5, 2002 -- U.N. weapons inspectors found mustard gas yesterday inside Iraqi artillery shells at a military complex north of Baghdad.

The inspectors had already known the gas and shells were stored at the Muthanna military site but hadn't yet been destroyed when the previous inspection team left Iraq in 1998.

Still, it was the first discovery of a chemical weapon since the United Nations returned to the country, inspector Dimitri Perricos said, adding, "Of course we are interested, because it is a good quantity of mustard."

Meanwhile, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice has pressed chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix to get more aggressive on Iraq and do multisite inspections, U.S. officials said yesterday.

 

[Paradewohlstandskind]

I wonder why no UN-Inspectors are searching for ABC-Weapons in the United States. For me as a non-muslim and a Eurpean their menace are eual.

 

[Hunble]

Re: Reply to Trasher

Trasher, I have provided you with enough information, that even you can verify that Iraq has mustard gas. If you do not trust my sources, then please ask the United Nations, since this is a factual report.

Once again, can you explain to us what peaceful purpose Iraq intends for this horrible weapon?

I honestly do not understand why you are supporting Iraq. Why do you desire to see thousands of people murdered?

The United States does not desire a war and we are doing everything possible to prevent it.

However, Iraq has these weapons for one purpose only. The murder of millions of innocent civilians.

The United States must never allow the murder of millions of innocent civilians to happen. If we must go to war, then Iraq has no longer left us any other choice.

Even if the United States does go to war, the actual number of deaths will be the minimum possible. Unlike other countries, the U.S. prides itself on it's respect for life, even in a time of war.

Who do you think those weapons Iraq has will be used against?

Why do you want those people to die if Iraq is ever given the opportunity to use them?

 

[Hunble]

I wonder why no UN-Inspectors are searching for ABC-Weapons in the United States. For me as a non-muslim and a European their menace are equal.

In 1980, I was personally involved with the movement of Nerve Gas weapons from Colorado to Utah. Those Nerve Gas weapons were created during WWII and had become a danger to the American population because of corrosion of the metal.

We were moving these Nerve Gas (VX) weapons to Utah for destruction. Even in 1980, during the Cold War, I had a Russian Officer sitting next to me during this process.

The USSR and the United States had signed a treaty to destroy these weapons. The Russians had inspectors to witness the destruction of our weapons, and we had Americans in the USSR to verify the destruction of their weapons.

Have I answered your question?

 

[truth-searcher]

10) During the 1980s, Germany was often attacked by the Islamic nations, with horrible deaths of many German citizens.


This is history, I suppose.

@ hunble

This is nonsense, I suppose! Germany has not been attacked by any Islamic nation at all! What are you talking about?

Do you mean terrorist attacks? That is certainly not an attack by a nation!

Are you only here for trying to create negative feelings towards muslim nations among the german population?
Dont you think we already learned our lesson about prejudice?

And by the way, the way you talked about "dealing with the islamic problem" really gives me cold chills! Man, there was a similar choice of words going around in this country some 60 years ago, except that they were not talking about Islam but another Middle-Eastern Religion!!

Just take a look at how it went down :

1. A controversial person is elected to be leader of an economically shaken country X (lets call it X for now, ok?) , though there are still doubts whether the vote was really representative. And many political insiders had doubts whether this person was qualified as a state-leader.

2. Then a terrorist attack on an important symbolic building happens and shocks the people.

3. That leader and his party use the panic of the people to make a very rigid law that empowers the state to important cuts in personal freedom of its citizens. Everyone who opposes this is called unpatriotic, loses his job or status or is even put in jail! This is all done in the name of homeland-security and patriotism. "The people of X now must stand together!.. Bla bla"

4. A certain religious group Z is blamed to be a threat to the well-being of the citizens and the whole world.

5. The "inner-security" is cranked up, until public dissent becomes almost impossible, all the countries media-outlets support the leader in this "time of national emergency", and so do the uninformed masses.

6. The rest of the world (with a few exceptions, especially a country Y that speaks the same language as country X and has strong historical ties to it) turns away from Country X and criticizes the war-eagerness of its leader. But there is no strong opposition by the international community at first, the other countries try to appease the leader of Country X by letting him start some military action against much weaker countries C and D. They hope that he will be satisfied after this success, even though he has already publicly announced his next steps!

7. People in country X are starting to wonder why most of the world seems to be against them. But they dont accept the fact that their own perception might be wrong, instead they come to the conclusion that blindness and the worldwide propaganda of religious group Z must have turned the rest of the world into idiots. They say: "Hey, we only wanna help the world to deal with the problem that religious group Z poses. Everybody knows that Z is the reason for war and problems all over the world. But we are the only ones doing something about it. The rest of the world should thank us and accept our country as the leading country of this planet!"

Now, does this seem familiar to you at all?

Country X fits perfectly for Germany in the 1930s and 1940s as well as it fits the recent years and months of the U.S. of A.!

Let me demonstrate that system of war by filling in :

1. Country X: Germany / America

Elected person: Adolf Hitler / G.W. Bush

(Dont get me wrong, of course Bush is in no way the same brutal horrendous criminal as Hitler was, I am just pointing out the similarity of the situations!)

2. The Reichstag-fire (Reichstagsbrand) / 9-11 WTC

3. The Empowerment Act (Ermächtigungsgesetze) / The Patriot Act

4. The Jews / The Muslims

5. I admit that the level of media-control in America now is not as strong as it was in Nazi-Germany. But of course it was far easier to control the few newspapers and radio stations in those days then it is now to control the internet. And American mainstream-media is definitely backing up G.W. Bush in every way, because they seem to perceive it as some kind of patriotic duty in these troubled times.

6. Country Y: Austria / Great Britain
Countries C and D: Chekoslovakia and Poland / Afghanistan and Iraq

You are wondering why so many Germans are so sceptical about what is going on in America? Because they experienced something that started very similar to what is going on in America now!

Ever since becoming a real democracy in 1949 (Thanks to America! Thanks, honestly, I mean it!), we were always taught (especially by America!) not to blindly follow and trust a single leader, even if he appears to be democratically elected!
We were taught to always question and check what the leaders of our country tell us, because they might use lies or emotions to trick us into a war.
We were taught not to think less of anyone because of his race or religion or country or belief.
We were taught that war can not be a sollution to international problems and that it is always the weak and powerless who suffer the most from a war.
And the main driving force behind these teachings after WW II was America! And that is why there always used to be respect for America among most germans (at least the ones with half a brain)!

And that is also why our chancellor Schröder was very fast to announce that Germany would back up America with "unlimited solidarity" after 9-11 happened.

We thought, our big friend America, the country who sacrificed his sons in WW II to free Europe and Germany from the horrible Nazi-regime, now is in need of help and solidarity. We wanted to stand by Americas side, cause we thought that American policy would act the way that they always taught it to us: Calm, intelligent, open and democratic!

But just the opposite happened: We were forced to watch how the America that we knew suddenly turned into a totalitarian war-hungry bully!

We were told: "You are either with us or against us!" That would be a good line for some mobster in a mafia movie, but from the leader of the free world???

Well, maybe me and most of the world are all just robots, reading off some crazy guys script.

Or maybe our script is simply the real facts and you are the robots ...

I just hope that the American people will remember their real values and their constitution and bring an end to the rule of those war-hawks in America.

Before you judge other countries and peoples, please check yourself!

Peace and greetings,
Truth-searcher

 

[Hunble]

A personal observation:

While we were moving those Nerve Gas weapons, I would report to work in the morning. There were dead birds on the steps and I had to kick them off as I entered the building. This was no joke and those weapons had become very dangerous.

My job was to monitor the weather and use a computer model that would predict the path of the Nerve Gas if we had an accident. The Governor of Colorado sat next to me for the purpose of ordering an evacuation of the Denver population if it was required.

The computer model would predict the number of deaths, if a complete bomb was to break open and leak the liquid Nerve Gas (VX) upon the ground. My job was to halt the movement if the predicted deaths got above 1000.

Eventually we moved all of the Nerve Gas bombs from Colorado to Utah for destruction. We only had 3 minor leaks and nobody was injured.

I have been shot in Germany, I was in Ryad, Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War and I was in Somalia.

Of all the military activities that I have personally witnessed, the moving of the Nerve Gas from Colorado has been the worse thing I have ever been involved with. This scared the hell out of me!

 

[Paradewohlstandskind]

Shall I believe you like you believe Saddam? Amerca owns A-Bombs and other dangerous weapons, wich can destroy our world more than 10 times. But, I know, the western civilasation need this to maintain it´s freedom.

1980... What about 1981 Ronald Reagon (an actor) he was afraid, the soldiers of one of the poorest countries could reach Texas in 2 Days. Many blood was running down from the poeple of Nicaragua withou any real reason.

I am looking forward to your reply to the truth-seatcher!

 

[Paradewohlstandskind]

Re: Reply to Trasher

The United States does not desire a war and we are doing everything possible to prevent it.

I can´t share this view. The US-Government works after the principles of economics od John Maynard Keyne, wich says tha the government hve to fill out the lack of demand with theit money. And the money always flows in weapons to defend the freedom. The government an their propoganda are produsing senseless fears like president Reagan in 1981. (Look: http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm)

Capitalism needs the war. You can read this in the book of Rosa Luxemburg >>Akumulation des Kapitals<<.

Maybe you can translate this into English. I can´t:

Rosa Luxemburg behauptete, der Faktor, der es dem Kapitalismus ermögliche, dem absoluten Akkumulationshindernis des begrenzten Marktes auszuweichen, sei die Expansion der kapitalistischen Industrie in nichtkapitalistische Gebiete.

So far as you translated this you will see, that capitalism lands always need more and more room.

 

[Hunble]

April 14, 1986: In retaliation for the bombing of a West Berlin night club where a U.S. serviceman was killed, U.S. Air Force & Navy bombers hit Tripoli and Benghazi in Libya.

Get out your history books please!

Perhaps you were just a child at the time, but people like myself were very much involved. This is not something from a history book to me, but personal memories.

The American bombers attack Libya and we did a fantastic job. After the bombing of Libya, that country has been very carefull and is no longer been a problem to Germany or America.

You have expressed your emotions and I respect that. Unfortunatly, those are emotions and not facts. Sir, I deal with facts!

I lived in those times and was there, so perhaps I do get rather frustrated when people like you try to lie for political reasons.

I was invited to this website to answer questions. Not to push my own personal politics. So far, I have not expressed my own personal politics in any way.

If you have specific questions, I may have actually been involved at the time and know the answer. After 20 years serving with the U.S. Army, I have learned many things.

Obviously, if the subject is classified, then I can not respond. If you have honest questions that I can answer, then I will do my very best.

 

[Trasher]

Re: Reply to Trasher

Trasher, I have provided you with enough information, that even you can verify that Iraq has mustard gas. If you do not trust my sources, then please ask the United Nations, since this is a factual report.

Ok, let's take it for real.

Once again, can you explain to us what peaceful purpose Iraq intends for this horrible weapon?

I'm sorry but it's your turn. At first YOU will have to explain for what peaceful purpose YOU are going to use them.
Remember: "Before you judge other countries and peoples, please check yourself!" (truth-searcher)

I honestly do not understand why you are supporting Iraq. Why do you desire to see thousands of people murdered?

Your biggest mistake is that you are thinking in black & white. I never mentioned that I am supporting Iraq.
Don't you think that the words of your leader are a bit undifferentiated: "Either with us or against us"?

The United States does not desire a war and we are doing everything possible to prevent it.

I think Bush is very talented to hide this fact

However, Iraq has these weapons for one purpose only. The murder of millions of innocent civilians.

What do you think you have it for?

Unlike other countries, the U.S. prides itself on it's respect for life, even in a time of war.

no comment

Who do you think those weapons Iraq has will be used against?

Why do you want those people to die if Iraq is ever given the opportunity to use them?

I never wanted somebody to die. Just remember truth-searcher's words: At first: Look at YOU!

 

[Trasher]

Of all the military activities that I have personally witnessed, the moving of the Nerve Gas from Colorado has been the worse thing I have ever been involved with. This scared the hell out of me!

So why do you support a country that is researching for new fucking cruel chemical and biological weapons?
Do you think they are made for not using them?
Who do you think supported afghanistan with weapons, hm?

The more you think about it, the more you will find things going wrong in YOUR own country.

 

[Hunble]

Re: Reply to Trasher

I can give you a very simple answer as to why the United States has Chemical Weapons:

During WWII, as America was at war with Germany, we developed Nerve Gas bombs. The official classification of that Nerve Gas is VX, which is an abbreviation for some German words. VX is a German invention!

By 1980, those old Nerve Gas bombs created during WWII were rusting and leaking. America has not developed any new chemical weapons since World War II, but we are stuck with thousands of these very dangerous weapons.

Russia has the exact same problem, and we were very happy to sign a mutual treaty to eliminate these weapons. They have no useful purpose and are more dangerous to our own population.

Have all of these weapons been destroyed yet? NO! These are very dangerous weapons and you can not just explode them without killing people. It is a slow and very difficult process to eliminate these weapons.

 

[Hunble]

Re: Reply to Trasher

I can´t share this view. The US-Government works after the principles of economics od John Maynard Keyne, wich says tha the government hve to fill out the lack of demand with theit money. And the money always flows in weapons to defend the freedom. The government an their propoganda are produsing senseless fears like president Reagan in 1981. (Look: http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm)

Capitalism needs the war. You can read this in the book of Rosa Luxemburg >>Akumulation des Kapitals<<.

---------------

I can answer your questions if I know the factual information. I simply have no idea what you are talking about with your previous statement.

Seriously, I have no idea what you are talking about. That is not the world that I live in.

 

[truth-searcher]

Paradewohlstandskind wrote:

Rosa Luxemburg behauptete, der Faktor, der es dem Kapitalismus ermögliche, dem absoluten Akkumulationshindernis des begrenzten Marktes auszuweichen, sei die Expansion der kapitalistischen Industrie in nichtkapitalistische Gebiete.

I would translate this as follows:

Rosa Luxemburg claimed, the factor, that would enable Capitalism to avoid the absolute obstacle of accumulation as presented by a limited market, would be the expansion of the capitalist industry into non-capitalist areas.